slider
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Supreme Court smacks down SotomayorBy a 5-4 decision, the SCOTUS reversed her decision concerning the racism against the New Haven CT firefighters. 
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jhofficial
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Re: Supreme Court smacks down Sotomayor | slider wrote: | | By a 5-4 decision, the SCOTUS reversed her decision concerning the racism against the New Haven CT firefighters. |
wonder how that will affect the work enviroment when she gets there? 
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coastie
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She'll continue to get smacked down 5-4.
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slider
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To add some more fuel to the fire, Ruth Bader Ginsberg wrote the dissent and I'm paraphrasing here, but she said that these firefighters actually didn't have a right to this promotion. Now this woman is a supreme court justice, why I don't know. I am no legal scholar but I broke her argument as soon as I read it. True, the firefighters do not have a right to a promotion, that was what the test they took was for, to prove who should be promoted. They passed the tests and they should have been promoted, but because none of the minority firefighters could pass the test, nobody got promoted, not even the ones that passed the tests. This is "RACISM". Sotomayor more or less agreed with the City of New Haven by not hearing the case and it came back to bite her in the @ss. Again!!!
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Kestrel
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But what was on the test? I don't remember firefighters putting out fires by running up to it and taking a multiple choice test. We complain about teachers teaching the test instead of material that really matters. Was the test what really matters, or is performance in the field what really matters?
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slider
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Kestrel, it is obvious that you don't know that you first have to ask an intelligent question in order to receive a response.
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Kestrel
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Slider, I would rather have a firefighter that knows how to put out a fire than take a test. I guess you prefer one that can take a test. Hope your insurance is better than your responses.
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Outsider
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slider wrote:
| Quote: | | By a 5-4 decision, the SCOTUS reversed her decision concerning the racism against the New Haven CT firefighters |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't an appeals court render that decision. If so, it was not her decision alone as implied.
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coastie
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Certainly these firefighters (they were up for promotion to lieutenant and captain) would need to know how to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" as they say.
But, as senior personnel, they would also be responsible for scene safety and the safety of the firefighters involved in fighting the fire.
There are many different standards they have to be familiar with - OSHA standards, ISOO rules, etc.
Written tests (as well as interview panels) are pretty common for promotion within the fire service, law enforcement, and EMS.
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Kestrel
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| coastie wrote: | Certainly these firefighters (they were up for promotion to lieutenant and captain) would need to know how to "put the wet stuff on the red stuff" as they say.
But, as senior personnel, they would also be responsible for scene safety and the safety of the firefighters involved in fighting the fire.
There are many different standards they have to be familiar with - OSHA standards, ISOO rules, etc.
Written tests (as well as interview panels) are pretty common for promotion within the fire service, law enforcement, and EMS. |
True. Many safety standards need to be known. The same at my workplace too. But everyone at my workplace is suppose to be familar with them. Also personnel and work policies. But we don't have a written test for promotion, just an interview panel of two usually with a dozen questions. Perhaps if we did, it would help me, but all the folks that have been promoted over me were white.
But did they use just the test for promotions?
At a 5-4 decision, the SCOTUS didn't exactly make a strong decision on the case.
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slider
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Outsider, you are right. She was a member of a 3 judge panel in the 2nd District Court of Appeals for New York.
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slider
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Kestrel-- there are more things than taking a written test to get promoted in the fire suppression service. A recommendation by your asst. chief, plus seniority and as coastie said the written test and an oral review board conducted by other officers in the department. Way back when I started, you had to go through a 6 week rookie fire school before you could even start shift work.
A 5-4 decision is not very strong, but the opinion was 93 pages.
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Cap'n Slappy
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This isn't a big deal at all. You act like she's the first appeals court Judge to have a case overturned. She'll do a fine job in the SCOTUS and be a part of a liberal majority on the court within the next 5 years.
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Kestrel
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| slider wrote: | | Supreme Court smacks down Sotomayor |
| slider wrote: | | A 5-4 decision is not very strong, but the opinion was 93 pages. |
| slider wrote: | | Outsider, you are right. She was a member of a 3 judge panel in the 2nd District Court of Appeals for New York. |
Still calling it a "smack down" on Sotomayor? 
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Outsider
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Here is a very balanced article on this subject.
| Quote: | According to the U.S. Supreme Court, several white firefighters were treated unfairly by the city of New Haven, Conn., when it refused to promote them despite their high scores on a promotional exam. In a 5-4 decision handed down on Monday, the court ruled that the city should not have scrapped the test just because black firefighters performed poorly.
That decision, in Ricci v. DeStefano, was eminently reasonable. You don’t change the score after the game is over. |
| Quote: | The high court’s four left-leaning justices supported New Haven, arguing that the city feared a lawsuit from black firefighters if none of them was promoted. (In essence, the four agreed with Judge Sonia Sotomayor, who supported New Haven in a ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit. So there are no grounds here to claim she’s incompetent.) In dissent, Justice Ruth Ginsberg noted, “Fire fighting is a profession in which the legacy of racial discrimination casts an especially long shadow.”
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You can read the complete article here:
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slider
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Outsider, I read the entire article, and you are exactly right about it being very balanced. Here is a link to another article that goes into a lot more detail. If you read it I think you might be a little surprised as I was. There are actual stats, that as usual, the media didn't report
http://www.slate.com/id/2219062/
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slider
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Slappy, Mayor Destafano of New Haven could have put this whole situation to rest, but he didn't. This case should not have had to be addressed by the 2nd District Court of Appeals and certainly not by the SCOTUS. I never said she was the only judge to have an opinion reversed by the Supreme Court. But after her last opinion was reversed by the SCOTUS, she now has a 66% reversal rate by the very same judges she will be seated with, if she is confirmed. And yes I think that a 66% reversal rate is a "big deal".
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slider
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[quote="Kestrel"] | slider wrote: | | Supreme Court smacks down Sotomayor |
| slider wrote: | | A 5-4 decision is not very strong, but the opinion was 93 pages. |
| slider wrote: | | Outsider, you are right. She was a member of a 3 judge panel in the 2nd District Court of Appeals for New York. |
| Kestrel wrote: |
Still calling it a "smack down" on Sotomayor? |
Yes I still consider it a "smack down" on Sotomayor
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Outsider
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slider wrote:
| Quote: | | There are actual stats, that as usual, the media didn't report |
Which seems to be the rule these days.
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slider
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Tell me about it. That is why I made reference to this particular article. Some may say, oh this is some right wing nut that wrote this article, but what I found interesting about it was that it makes you think for yourself just what may or may not have actually happened in this case.
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